Is it better to save, or invest in your business?

A reader recently sent me this e-mail:

"My daughter-in-law wants to save, but cannot convince my son. He thinks that every dollar she tries to save would be better off going straight into his business.

She and I have talked about the importance of saving. I would love to show her the plan to save $1 million by the time she is a certain age. She is 34 now. How much per month will she need to save to reach $1 million by age 50 or 60?"

Figuring out how much to save per month to reach $1 million can be a good motivational tool, especially if someone is young. (In fact, I recently used it with my daughter.) But to get the reader's son onboard with a plan to put away some money for the future, it may work better to focus less on the potential reward of saving and investing, and focus on the potential risk of small businesses instead.

Not much motivation

The sacrifice required to reach $1 million by age 50 won't sway the son (or encourage his wife) to start saving. To reach that goal, the couple would have to sock away nearly $2,300 per month for the next 15-1/2 years (assuming a 10% average annual return, which you can get with a well-mixed portfolio of stock and bond mutual funds).

Waiting a decade or so makes the amount more palatable, but still tough to swallow: $725/month to reach a million by age 60, and $427/month to get there by age 65 (such is the magic of compounding). Doable, but still unlikely to convince Sonny Boy that the money is better off invested in stocks and bonds than in his own business-building skills.

Offsetting a huge risk

Which is where risk comes in. Investing solely in one's own business is a lot like investing in the stock of an individual company--except, if you're just starting out, even riskier. Many small businesses fail within the first five years (depending on the source, between 50% and 80%). The son may invent the next Google, but he may not. Saving money for the future to offset this huge risk isn't a comment on his business idea or abilities; it's good financial sense.

Come together on a plan

That said, my e-mail friend should encourage her son and his wife to sit down together and establish a concrete plan. It should have room for both saving for tomorrow and investing in the business, with well-defined and mutually agreed upon goals and definitions of success.

Since they are relatively young, the couple could put more money toward the business initially, with the caveat that they evaluate the return on their investment in a year or so. If the business is showing signs of progress, they may even be able to increase the amount they're putting toward both goals. If not, they could evaluate whether it's time to shut the operation down. Either way, the decision should be theirs--not his or hers.

Potential reward is the aspect many people consider first about investing, but don't forget about risk. Understanding your own comfort with it--as well as that of your spouse--can go a long way toward making you a wise investor.

Mortgage bailout is the object of my ire

Ok, I know it's been a while--more than three months since my last post. In that time, I've welcomed a new daughter into the world, passed another test on my way to a Chartered Financial Consultant designation, and scrambled to find and buy a replacement car for my Sentra, which unexpectedly died on the Pa. Turnpike. So I've been busy.

What prompted me to write today? Outrage. The culprit? The Bush mortgage bailout plan. It's even made me do something that I've never done before: write to my congressman and senators. (That would be Jim Saxton, Frank Lautenberg, and Bob Menendez--and you didn't even think I knew who they were, did you, Dad?)

Wish I had the government in step in to freeze the rate on the ARM I took out on my first house back in 1999, when I didn't know any better. Would have been nice to pay the low initial rate I got for an extra five years.

Better yet, wish M and I had used an ARM to buy that oh-so-nice $464,000 house we looked at a few years ago. We knew we could never afford it with a fixed-rate mortgage on our five-figure income. What were we thinking? We could still be living there, sitting pretty with an affordable rate until 2012. And who knows, by then I could have turned this blog into a money-making machine, become CEO of my company, or hit the lottery, so we could afford the payments when the rate resets then.

One anonymous poster on Real Time Economics sums up my feelings about the Bush plan pretty well, plus gave me a chuckle:

"I would like the government to help me out with my gambling debt in Vegas. The casino didn’t explain the rules very well. And I didn’t realize that the house had the advantage. I would like my life savings back. If you could just give me a little more time, I think I could win it all back. Please help me!"

Shhhh, anonymous...Don't give Washington any more bright ideas.

When should I get rid of my high-mileage car?

I’m approaching 193,000 miles on my 1998 Nissan Sentra GXE, and I’m in a quandary. When should I buy another car with lower mileage?

My Sentra, unlike the one shown here, is in fair condition. It runs a little more sluggishly and loudly than it used to. A small dent from backing into a friend’s car is noticeable, but not terribly so. The interior is clean and tear-free, with a few minor upholstery stains that I could scrub out.

My wife and stepdaughter see my Sentra as a “junker.” I see it as a wise choice for my driving needs. I’ve logged 100,000 miles in about four-and-a-half years traveling 105 roundtrip miles daily to work and the car has required just one non-maintenance repair of over $500. It’s 30 miles-per-gallon has been nice in this era of $2.50-plus per gallon gas prices. And I could conceivably sell it for about $2,800, according to Kelly Blue Book—an amount that’s held fairly steady even as the miles have piled higher.

Sell the car now or later?
With 200,000 miles approaching, I’m actually a little excited. Just how many miles can I get? But I also know I’m living on borrowed time. If the car does die, it will be worth nothing.

I’ve been watching the market for used Nissans, Toyotas, and Hondas on phillycars.com, a local car-buying site. I could get something similar to my Sentra with less than 100,000 miles for $4,000 to $7,000. M and I have some cash saved to get another car for me, but we also dip into that reserve when our monthly cash flow gets tight. A part of me wants to use that money for the car sooner rather than later, before we drain it completely.

Going to keep driving—for now
Still, I’m tempted to keep wringing as many miles as I can out of my trusty Sentra. There’s a good chance that it will die a slow death, with steadily increasing repair bills, rather than suffer a sudden automotive cardiac arrest. Then I could keep it running until I find a car and a deal I like, which is better than being forced to take whatever cars and deals are available at the time because I need a car to drive.

What would you do?

The truth about budgeting

Research has shown that about 40% of all households maintain a monthly spending plan, or budget. While they make up less than half of us, do budget-users know something non-budgeters don’t? Have they discovered a secret to make budgeting less of a chore?

Unfortunately, no. Here are three truths that I've learned about using a spending plan, and that other users would likely agree with:

Planning ahead is hard. Unexpected expenses come up every month and prices on most things (not just gas) continue to rise. Sometimes spending predictions are off—even way off.

Tracking spending is a pain. A purse or wallet stuffed with receipts is annoying. And even with budgeting software, logging all the information can be time-consuming.

Budgets are "restrictive." Yes, a budget will restrict you from buying what you want--especially if you can’t afford it.

So now you know: Budgeting isn’t fun. But that's true about many things in life that are good for us. Watching what we eat and sweating it out at the gym aren’t easy, for example. But the satisfaction you can get from a trim, healthy body makes the effort worthwhile.

Financial talk-show host Dave Ramsey likes to say that folks who get on a monthly budget often feel like they’ve gotten a raise. Such can be the power of planning and knowing where your dollars are going each month. And that can lead to some fun--that you really can afford--in the long run.

Financial emergency brings one couple closer together

A financial crisis like a job loss can put enormous stress on a marriage and a family. But it can also bring deeper problems to the surface that can turn it into a blessing in disguise.

For instance, Sara and Tom always considered themselves a typical American family when it came to their household finances. They each worked full-time, carried some credit card debt, and generally lived within their means.

But in the back of her mind, Sara knew something wasn’t right. Whenever she sat down to pay the bills, she felt a sense of fear and insecurity. “We’ve always been okay financially. We didn’t overspend and we are not extravagant people, but we didn’t have an emergency fund,” she said.

In a financial bind
Like many people, Sara and Tom [I’ve changed their names to respect their privacy] felt there was no reason to expect a financial crisis. They both have good jobs—Tom is in the New Jersey state government, Sara is a sixth-grade science teacher—where they’ve worked for more than 20 years. But in the spring of 2004 Tom had to stop working due to a serious illness, putting the family in a bind.

“We needed to learn how to live on one salary when we were just doing okay on two salaries. We didn’t know how we were going to do it,” Sara said.

I met Sara and Tom through Good $ense, a financial counseling ministry I serve with through our church. While a crisis had prompted them to seek counseling, it was evident that Sara and Tom often were not on the same page financially. Sara is more of a saver, Tom more of a spender. Money was often a source of conflict in their marriage.

Accountable to their budget
As their counselor, I helped Sara and Tom examine their income, assets, and spending patterns. They learned how to create a spending plan for their family each month, something they had never been able to do before. Each time we met, they stayed accountable as to how well each was sticking to the plan. As they began to monitor their budget and plan together how to pay their bills with less income, the stress and conflict caused by the money problems subsided.

“[The counseling] put us on the right track,” said Tom. Sara agreed, “It helped me to feel secure and safe when everything felt out of control.”

A catalyst for positive change
Thankfully, Tom has since recovered from his illness and is working again. Though the emergency is over, the lessons on budgeting and getting on the same financial page have stuck with them. A crisis turned into a catalyst for positive change in their marriage and financial life.

“The funny thing is, we were more financially together during that time of our lives than ever before,” Tom said.

My daughter's millionaire dreams aren't far from reality

Our oldest daughter Jessica said she wants to be a millionaire someday. At age 19, she’s off to a good start, and that substantially increases the odds of achieving her goal.

A few weeks ago, Jess took about $1,600 she’d saved from after-school jobs and opened a Roth IRA. With a Roth IRA, Jess can save and invest for her future, such as retirement. The money she puts in will grow without being taxed, just like a traditional IRA or a 401(k) plan. However, unlike those types of retirement savings vehicles, when she starts taking money out of the Roth IRA down the road, her earnings likely will be tax-free.

$100 a month to start
Naturally Jess isn’t thinking as much right now about retiring from her career as starting it. She’s in her second year at Northeastern University in Boston, majoring in journalism and cinema studies. Part of her education includes a semester working full-time at a local newspaper, so she’s been getting a weekly paycheck since January. Her plan is to put at least $100 a month into her Roth account for the foreseeable future, and beyond.

No school debt and lots of time
Jessica’s opportunity to build substantial wealth is enormous thanks to two huge advantages she has. First, she attends Northeastern on a full scholarship. She will graduate in a few years with no school debt whatsoever, which should help to keep her plans to save on track even while pursuing a career field where starting salaries often almost feel like minimum wage.

The second advantage is time. With a savings horizon of 40-plus years, Jess’ sacrifices of trendy clothes, late-night pizzas, and morning ice coffees in these college years could mean financial freedom and security in her retirement years. I’d bet some Baby Boomers today wish they had made the same decisions when they were her age.

It sure adds up
Not that Jess needs any motivation, but I e-mailed her these numbers to show just how wise she really is to start a meaningful saving plan at age 19:

(For simplicity, I based my calculations on a 10% average annual return on the IRA investments.)

• By saving just $100 a month in a Roth IRA, Jess stands an excellent chance of being a millionaire by the time she is 63 years old.


• If she increased her savings to $168 a month, she has a great likelihood of being a millionaire by her 60th birthday.


• If she starts saving the maximum amount allowed for an IRA ($4,000/year in 2007, or $333/month), she could even have her first million by the time she turns 52 (not even “retirement” age).

Granted, $1 million in 2047 won’t get Jessica a retirement that is 100% financially secure. But unlike many kids her age, she already understands the value of saving and sacrifice to reach a long-term financial goal, and that will serve her well.

I couldn’t be prouder.

Lessons learned from buying a used van

The search is over. I wrote in January that M and I were in the market for a minivan and we finally bought one: a silver-blue 1999 Honda Odyssey EX that has just 89,000 miles. It’s already proven a nice addition to the family; on a road trip last weekend, we buckled CJ Jr. into his carseat and peeled off wet jackets while staying warm and dry within its spacious interior, as a Nor’easter raged outside our windows.

As an added benefit, we saved about $1,000 on the purchase price—money we plan to shift toward our goal of building an emergency fund of three months cash reserves.

As thrilled as M and I are with our purchase, it wasn’t easy. At times, we both longed for the convenience and security of buying brand new. But I did learn a few good lessons from our Odyssey-shopping “odyssey.”

Be patient
The search was slow, lasting six weeks start to finish. Along the way, I visited nine dealerships within a 50-mile radius of our home. I responded to four private ads, even test driving one vehicle while on the way to a family function (for which we ended up being late). And I spent many evening and weekend hours hunting for prospects on cars.com, kbb.com, and phillycars.com.

Even more maddening than the time spent was the time wasted, checking out vehicles that didn’t live up to their billing. Opening the hood of an Odyssey at one small dealer revealed what looked like actual tumbleweeds lodged in a grime-covered engine. A 2001 Nissan Quest advertised as “well-maintained” vibrated unnervingly as M eased it out of the driveway on a test drive.

Was the time and effort worth the ultimate benefit? It didn’t always feel like it. More than once we considered throwing in the towel and diving deeper into savings to increase the $10,000 maximum pricetag we wanted to pay. Now, as we enjoy the extra space and the automatic sliding doors (which CJ Jr. opens with an enthusiastic “Abracadabra!”)—all within our original budget and requirements—I’m glad we patiently stuck to our plan.

Be skeptical
I’m smart enough to raise an eyebrow when a vehicle’s seller says the emergency brake-indicator that continually stays on during my test drive “doesn’t mean anything.” But I almost gave in on one of my key buying criteria—having my own mechanic inspect the vehicle I wanted to buy—because I wasn’t skeptical enough.

Several used car dealers told me I couldn’t drive their vehicle to my mechanic before buying it. The reason? Insurance wouldn’t cover it (my mechanic is near my home, so it usually meant a trip of several miles). After the first few dealers threw up the same roadblock, I was almost ready to concede the point.

But my father, an attorney with lots of experience suing car dealerships, said the dealers’ rationale was nonsense. It was unlikely the vehicles weren’t insured, and even if that was the case, I had coverage as a driver. Most likely, the dealers didn’t want to take the chance that my mechanic would find something wrong.

Sure enough, the dealership that eventually won my business had no problem with me driving the Odyssey the 25-plus miles to my mechanic before I paid a cent. Jason, the salesperson, didn’t ask for a deposit or even the keys to my car. “We’re confident that our guys found everything and anything, so have at it,” he said. My mechanic gave the van a nice thumbs-up (“It’s got a lot of life left in it,” he said) and I had some much-needed peace of mind.

Make an offer
Like many people, I don’t like haggling over a car’s price. But I know that haggling can mean money in my pocket, and I am cheap by nature. So I haggle.

And it works. In buying our Odyssey, I made an initial offer of $8,000, 20% below the dealer’s $10,000 advertised price. I thought it absurdly low for one of the best vans I’d seen, and Jason seemed to confirm it by quickly shaking his head.

“No way,” he said. “There might be some wiggle room, but not that much. We don’t price our cars artificially high and then discount them thousand of dollars during the sale to make buyers think they got a great deal. We advertise what we feel is our best price.”

I took a breath. The Odyssey’s price was certainly in line with others I’d seen advertised for similar vans, I said. But it wasn’t the lowest either, and besides, we had no real idea what other vans were actually selling for. It was probably less than $10,000, I concluded.

“Let me take it to my sales manager and see what we can do,” Jason said.

Five minutes later, he came back with a $9,000 offer. I shook his hand and sealed the deal. Looking back, I wonder if I my “absurdly low” offer was really too high.

The path to wealth is usually a slow one

There are no shortcuts to financial success, but you wouldn’t know it by the Internet. Just Google the phrase “get rich quick” and you get advertisements like these:

“Bring in $100,000 a month: I can teach you how!”

“Turn $600 into $39,000 with the Forgotten Commodity!”

“Earn money fast and LEGALLY!”

Seeking quick riches can spell trouble
The absurdity of the ads’ claims is worth a chuckle. And maybe you've never felt tempted to click one just to “see what it’s all about.” But someone is clicking, and buying into the ads’ promises—otherwise they wouldn’t exist.

“Quick and easy” is a good description for making a box of Mac n' Cheese, not building wealth. After all, “The trustworthy person will get a rich reward, but a person who wants quick riches will get into trouble.” (Psalms 28:20)

Overnight wealth, or lasting peace?
In their research for the bestselling book, The Millionaire Next Door, Drs. Thomas Stanley and William Danko found that “building wealth takes sacrifice, discipline, and hard work”—hardly the stuff offered by the Internet ads above. But chances are most folks wouldn’t click on ads like these:

“Learn the secret to financial success: Spend less, save more!”

“Retire a multimillionaire—in just 30 years!”

“Be content with what you have. Find out how!”

Living below your means, using a monthly spending plan (budget), setting aside money for the future, and avoiding debt won’t you get rich overnight. But they can vastly improve your chances of accumulating wealth in the long run. More importantly, they offer the promise of something much better: lasting peace and contentment.

Woman's good financial sense leads to windfall

Making wise personal finance decisions can be hard because they often require short-term sacrifices for long-term benefits. But they do pay off--and as one California woman found--even quite handsomely.

Hoping to help pay for her oldest daughter's tuition to the University of California, Berkeley, the woman decided to auction off a painting that once belonged to her grandmother, according to an Associated Press report. Instead of the few thousand dollars the woman was expecting the painting to fetch, she was stunned at the picture's final bid: a whopping $620,900.

A possibly difficult choice

Not having the needed funds for her child to attend a terrific school like Berkeley, Mom could have easily required the daughter to load up on student loans. As colleges go, Berkeley is a nice value; in-state undergraduate tuition for 2006-2007 averages only $7,800. Commuting to school from home, the daughter could conceivably graduate in four years with a "reasonable" $70,000 in debt.

But Mom faced head-on what may have been an emotionally difficult choice: Part with a painting that hung on the wall for years in her grandmother's home in Italy? Or strap her child (or the family overall) with a debt-load that might take years and years to pay off?

By choosing to sell the painting, the family can now afford to provide all of their children with higher educations without putting themselves behind the financial eight-ball. Maybe they can even have a more secure retirement.

The wisdom of avoiding debt

To be sure, the woman's experience is rare. The sold painting was unsigned, rumored to be the lost work of 17th-century Italian art master Pier Francesco Mola. Who knows if it is worth the price that the unnamed art dealer paid for it.

I won't be searching my parents' basement anytime soon for family heirlooms that could help pay our kids' college costs. But, like the mother in this story, I will do whatever I can to avoid overloading our family and our children with substantial student loan debt. That approach may not get us a cool $600,000, but I know that it, too, will have its rewards.

Want that bank fee waived? Then ask

The ATM receipt I held gave me a sickening feeling. A negative sign showed next to the balance amount.

M’s and my checking account was overdrawn, and I knew exactly why. I’d forgotten to deposit a check I had put in my wallet earlier in the week, which was why I had gone to the ATM in the first place.

The good news is that I didn’t have to pay an overdraft fee, and not because Commerce Bank didn’t charge one (a nice, hefty $35). In fact, it was because I asked them not to.

A benefit of competition
You might be surprised to know that fees at banks, credit card companies, and other financial institutions are often negotiable. Many times—but not every time—you can avoid paying a charge that’s been levied on you for whatever reason simply by contacting the company and asking them to waive it.

Over the years I’ve saved by having the annual fee on my credit card waived, as well as charges for making a payment by phone (when I’ve been a little late mailing the check). Buying my first house, my father encouraged me to push the mortgage companies competing for my business to remove the many extraneous charges ($35 for courier services, $25 for faxing paperwork, etc.) that they like to tack on to provide the loan. Not every company waived every fee, but some did.

The reason financial companies are willing to let you keep your money? Competition. Losing your business to another bank or credit card company costs them much more than losing the revenue from a one-time $20 or $30 fee. Besides, for every person who asks to have a charge removed, there are many more who simply pay it, no questions asked.

Good financial habits help
That said, financial companies are only willing to go so far. If you make a habit of bouncing checks or paying your credit card late, you have little chance of avoiding the resulting penalty charges, no matter how nicely you ask.

In the years M and I have been customers at Commerce, I can’t recall being overdrawn any other time. We also were never late with a payment on M’s car loan, which they financed, and paid it off several months in advance. So the tedious chores associated with being a good financial steward—balancing the checking account, tracking where our money goes—do have their rewards.

Still, being temporarily overdrawn has shown me that I keep the cash level of our checking account lower than I should. I don’t like the idea of keeping a hundred or so “extra” dollars in the account—money that isn’t accounted for in M’s and my monthly spending plan—where it can be easily tapped. But it’s probably better than relying on my memory to make sure I always make our deposits on time.

Charged up about the cost of a cell phone battery

I've been debating getting rid of M and my cell phones. Buying a cell phone battery has pushed me a little closer to hitting "End Call" permanently.

I've had my LG VX3300 cell phone for about 15 months--not that long, in my estimation. I use it only moderately; I rarely go over the minutes in my service plan and I turn it off when I'm at work. So the fact that the factory model battery recently stopped holding its charge for any length of time was annoying enough.

Then I went to my friendly local Verizon accessory dealer for a replacement. The pricetag: an appalling $49. More than twice as much as I expected. As M pointed out after I got back, "For that, you could have gotten a whole new phone."

I want what I want
Yes, I could have. But I didn't want a new phone. My phone serves my purposes well enough. I don't need a cameraphone, a webphone, or a phone with the ability to answer e-mail.

And I definitely don't want a new cell phone plan, which cheap new phones often come with. I can't wait for our current two-year contract to run out so we can unload it from our monthly budget. I'd rather put $82 toward CJ Jr's college fund--which we've temporarily stopped contributing to, since we went to one income--than give it to Verizon.

I've considered paying the cancellation fee. Dishing out the $150 for each of our two phones is less than half than amount we'll pay ($738) for the next nine months to finish out the contract. But I just can't stomach putting out that kind of money for absolutely nothing.

Two big errors
I do shoulder some of the blame for my battery "overcharge." I didn't shop around beforehand, as I normally do. Afterwards I found one online for half the price.

I also took CJ Jr. with me on my little errand. I may have been more inclined to go to a couple different places, or even ask the Verizon guy about other options, if I had been able to keep both eyes on the cash register instead of one eye on CJ.

Now M and I have to revisit our January spending plan and figure out where that extra $30 or so will come from. That may not sound like much, but it eats up a little chunk of our expected household expenses for the month, which we try to keep as fixed as possible.

Besides, I just wanted a battery, at a reasonable price. Is that too much to ask?

Time to shop for a van

The CJ family is growing. M and I have just found out she’s pregnant, God bless, due in late summer.

While we still have to get through that crucial first trimester—as M cautions, she is 39, which means a greater chance of complications—I’m throwing caution to the wind and proceeding full-speed ahead to prepare for the new arrival. So this weekend I’ll start shopping for a minivan to replace M’s 2002 Honda Civic.

A new experience
I bought my last car, the slightly used 1998 Sentra I drive to this day, eight years ago. Back then I traded in my 1988 Ford Festiva, took out a five-year loan, and made all 60 payments.

This time, I’ll be putting some of the personal finance wisdom I’ve learned to the test. I’ll be selling M’s car privately instead of trading it in. I’ll be looking for a vehicle around three to five years old and between 75,000 and 100,000 miles on it, instead of just slightly used. And I’ll be paying cash instead of carrying around a car loan for half a decade of my life.

Private sale means more cash
The advantages of this approach: First, by selling M’s car privately, I should be able to get more money for it than I would as a trade-in. According to Kelley Blue Book, a good condition Civic like M's sells privately in my area for about $9,400, nearly $1,400 more than its trade-in value. It’s also paid off, so every dollar we get for it goes to us.

Sure, showing the car to buyers will probably be a hassle and it may cost a few bucks to run some ads. But will the time and money be worth another $1,400 that we can apply to the van purchase? I think so. We’ll see.

Used doesn’t mean unreliable
Second, we can in no way afford a brand new Honda Odyssey—the van M prefers—which currently has a minimum pricetag of $26,000. Even if we could, I’d have a hard time shelling out that kind of money for something that will likely worth about half that amount in a couple years.

A high-mileage Odyssey is still relatively pricey—around $9,000 to $12,000—but much of that cost should be covered by the sale of M’s Civic. And while we do run the risk of buying something with unforeseen mechanical problems, Honda and Odysseys have a great reputation for reliability. I also plan to check certified pre-owned vehicles first to see if they are in our price range.

In the end, I expect we’ll pay an additional $2,000 to $4,000 for the luxury of not having to hear my teenage stepdaughter complain about being wedged between two carseats. That’s family peace at an affordable price.

No borrowing costs, less risk
Lastly, I’m looking forward to telling a car salesperson that I want to pay by check instead of taking out a loan. Financing mostly benefits the dealer, since loans are often where auto retailers make their biggest profits.

For buyers, however, a new car’s value drops like an anvil in its first couple years on the road. Used car values still lose ground each year, though not as quickly. Having a car loan is like borrowing money to buy a stock you know is going to lose money. It doesn’t really make sense.

Plus, say M and I hit dire financial straits down the road and had to sell the van. We may owe more on it than we can sell it for—what’s known as being “upside down” in a loan. That would likely make our tough money situation only slightly better.

Paying cash might mean a dealer and salesperson are less willing to negotiate on a van’s price, since that’s where their only profits will come from. But I’m willing to take that chance. Last I checked, there were lots of used Odysseys for sale in my area.